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Post by eljjai on Jan 5, 2014 8:34:57 GMT
I want to talk about the music industry itself. Not the glitz and glamour that is manufactured and packaged and delivered to the public as the final product for us to consume, but the enormous monstrous machinery behind it all. How is a singer made? How is a singer maintained?
How are contracts created and carried out. What happens in the even of a breach?
These dreamy stories of being discovered singing in a small bar are all just part of "The Myth". Almost every celebrity has a myth. A sob story about how they went from rags to riches that makes you want to root for them and give them all your money. Even Oprah has a myth.
From what I have come to understand, the industry is seedy from the get go, nothing is off limits, no one is safe, not even children, (ask those disney kids why they always lose it). I read somewhere that a big part of the industry is about control. These singers do not have control of their own lives. They are kept in line by means of drugs, blackmail, finances and anything else you can think of. For example when a new rapper gets signed to a lable, they are given an advance, put in a nice house, given a nice car, and they are told they can pay it back when their album drops. Only to find out when their album drops the percentage they actually make is very little. and thus begins a life of being indebted to the lable.
Now, I'm not saying it's right but look at it this way: You have a singer. Maybe she's beautiful with a nice body and a great voice. She's gonna make millions but all she knows how to do is sing and dance. So she's not going to make that money by herself. The record lable makes the money. The singer is just a tool. A very valuable tool but a tool none the less. What person in their right mind would let an asset do whatever it wanted whenever it wanted? Possibly damaging itself and its profitability in the process.
I am of the opinion that the higher up the singer is, the more controlled they are. Because they are a valuable asset, they cannot be allowed to do whatever they want in case what they want to do is not in the best interest of the bottom line. An example is when an actor wants to come out of the closet and their handlers know it will damage the product. Actor gets forced into fake relationships etc etc.
So taking all that and applying it to the likes of Beyonce and all her colleagues. These people are not in charge of anything.
(let me go off on a tanget a little) Nowadays it's all the rage to appear to be a boss, so PR/marketing is going with that. People want to be associated with a winner. People's self esteem in general is at an all time low (funny because narcissm is at an all time high). So people will gravitate towards a winner believing that they are winners by association. That's why Beyonce's PR is willing to tell all sorts of ridiculous lies making it seem like she's winning and she's a boss when she isn't. If it were ever to come out as a fact that Beyonce has fallen off and can't even decide what to wear without help, her stans would leave her.
Behind the scenes, these people get to choose very little about their lives.
If you have any insights or thoughts on the industry to add. Even if they are not direcly related to what I've just posted, this is the thread for it. I'd like us to discuss the business of music. everything that the public doesn't get to see. The negotiations, the agreements/ back scratching, blackballing; all the nitty gritty that few people ever stop to think about when bopping their heads to the latest beats.
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Post by belladonna1983 on Jan 5, 2014 8:38:54 GMT
All makes sense. History has proven it, especially when the smart ones (think Prince) back away & rebel
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Post by eljjai on Jan 5, 2014 8:51:00 GMT
Other examples of the controling nature of the industry,
When Rihanna was starting to generate buzz and people were calling her a little Beyonce, she didn't like it so she went and cut her hair. Her record lable made her put a weave in right quick. She mentions it somewhere.
Britney Spears is a huge money maker. She is very very controled. Even prior to her breakdown. The likes of Adnan Galib were not taken care of by Daddy Spears. They were taken care of by the true stakeholders. For her breakdown to go public, someone was sleeping on duty and after the door was bust open they had to roll with it. When people have a mental breakdown, unless they have no choice, they don't keep doing the thing that made them breakdown.
Lindsey Lohan is no longer profitable, she is no longer controled, she's a public mess. Consider when most stars come out of the closet or lose control of their lives, it's when they are no longer profitable. Theres a relationship between those two things.
A lot of these stars are wrecks but you'll never see it in public because it is all controled.
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Post by Guest on Jan 5, 2014 9:11:57 GMT
Thought I'd move this article to over here
Now Matthew….SMH. There are many producers who I’ve worked with directly who were signed to Matthew as producers and they were ROBBED off their publishing. There’s one producer who produced a huge record on the BDAY album (i won’t name the record because it would be a dead give away on my identity) but he was signed to Matthew and only got $25,000 for the track…period. Now that may seem like a lot of money but keep in mind the song went on to make way more than $25,000. Matthew took all of his publishing…dude doesn’t get royalties or nothing because he signed them away to Matthew in a shady deal. Now here’s a dude that’s produced a hugh record for Beyonce barely gets credited for it as a ghost writer…I don’t even know if his name shows up in the credits but they replaced his name with the name of a major producer and I think they either credited him as a co-producer if I’m not mistaken but dude was the one who actually created the beat from scratch.
Another instance of Matthew’s griminess is the way he treated the girl group that was signed to his label. Barely gave them any money…had them locked in their contract for years (even had one of the girls miss her graduation by threatening to kick her out the group if she didn’t show up to the performance). When their contract was finally up he retained the rights to ALL their songs so they basically ended up in like a 7 year deal shelved at Music World and then all the work they did with him they basically have nothing to show for it because dude kept all their music.
Why do you all think Matthew aggressively pursued signing Jennifer Hudson during the Dreamgirls era when she overshadowed his daughter?
Jennifer and her people saw the writing on the wall when Music World, Matthew’s company which distributed the Dreamgirls soundtrack, failed to submit her showstopping rendition of And I Am Telling…to the Grammys. It would have been an easy win for her and this was when he had considerable clout on the board, having a major hand in many of his daughter’s wins. You do the math…
One of the hidden secrets of how these executives do business is this…
have you ever wondered how in the last 10-15 years there’s only a few artists to reign on top? Well, I learned working at the labels (and Matthew, Diddy & LA Reid have been notorious for this) is that labels will sign acts who have talented, and they feel may be a direct competition for their main act on the label, lock them in a contract and shelve them for years so that they don’t sign to another label and compete with their breadwinner. That’s why someone like a Beyonce or Rihanna can have years to reign in the industry because their labels make sure they keep the competition at bay. They’ll sign acts who they have no intention of ever investing in, give them false hope and completely ignore them. This has happened not only to artists but to producers as well. There are a lot of talented acts signed to labels who don’t have the “machine” behind them so they end up stuck and by the time they are let out their contract their too old or too jaded by the industry to want to even do this music thing anymore.
That’s why the music industry has been dying a slow death. It’s not just illegal downloads but it’s that artists are waking up and seeing how these labels really operate. L.A. Reid is about to take a serious fall…karma is def starting to come for him. He wasn’t forced out of Def Jam for nothing.
The bottom line is that if you choose to be a star in hollywood and you are uneducated about the business, YOU WILL BE SCREWED! Guys like Puff Daddy, Mathew Knowles, L.A. Reid, Jay-Z and Tommy Mottola are very well educated about the industry. Hollywood is not a 9 to 5 job. You must be well educated and have eyes in the back of your head. In hollywood, EVERYBODY IS A THIEF!
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Post by eljjai on Jan 5, 2014 11:04:28 GMT
^^^ Now that's what I'm talking about!! All the wheeling and dealing that goes on in the dark whilst Beyonce and Rihanna are glowing on the red carpet. I remember when British new comer artist Alexandra Burke (girl has some pipes) was gushing about how Beyonce was taking her under her wing. I was like, we're never gonna hear from her if that's the case. And 5 years later she still hasn't broken the US market, she was a very viable product.
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Post by eljjai on Jan 5, 2014 11:41:06 GMT
via Eonline:
“[Matthew Knowles] tried to sign [Hudson] halfway through production of Dreamgirls because he wanted to be her manager,” my source says, “but Jennifer turned him down. That’s when things really went south.”…I’m told that [Matthew] was so insulted by her refusal to sign with him that he demanded the movie be re-edited to lessen Hudson’s screen time and boost Beyoncé’s. He argued that his daughter was being shortchanged but was rebuffed by the studio and the filmmakers. In one meeting with director Bill Condon, I’m told, Beyoncé’s mom, Tina, went into a 'tirade' about how he ruined the movie for her daughter. “It was supposed to be her Oscar role,” Tina hissed, according to a source…
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Post by eljjai on Jan 5, 2014 15:45:30 GMT
Question:
Who gets sued when an artist steals intellectual property? Is it just the artist or even the lable that produced the stolen goods? Because everytime BEyonce gets sued it seems as though her lable just hangs her out to dry.
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Post by missy on Jan 5, 2014 16:25:13 GMT
Nice thread Eljjai and all contributors as well! Very informative, cant wait to read other posts.
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Post by whoa chile! on Jan 5, 2014 17:43:38 GMT
ugh, these people are all sick!
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Post by rocky on Jan 5, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
you have to have some sort of singing talent to be a superstar...but the most important thing needed is to have "the look" nowadays you need to be sexy in order to make it in this music industry. or you have to be willing to do anything to become a superstar and hire a greedy manager
look at rihanna for example: we all seen that video of her singing hero by mariah carey..but with a little training her pretty face greedy managers she became a big star
beyonce: started out with DC she was willing to anything to become a star she had a greedy manager matty knowles and kicked out her friends in the group
that whole "i was discovered at a bar" only happens in movies lol
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Post by Jordan Jada on Jan 5, 2014 21:55:41 GMT
Excellent thread eljjai, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have myself created a thread on this topic about the hidden secrets of music industry, on the general board. There are some articles there, you can check if you want.
I remember for years I asked myself this question as a child and teenager..."How come these celebrities who have it all end up in drugs or crazy? Why aren't they happy if they have it all?" The entertainment industry flashes to our eyes this fancy, expensive celebrity lifestyle so we would envy them. They rarely show "normal", low key celebrities.
Even the biggest stars were controlled. Michael Jackson is an excellent example of that. He was smarter than most though and became the most powerful singer in the industry. There are rumours about him being murdered for his songs catalog... Which is by now worth BILLIONS of dollars.
The artists who make real money are the independent ones. An independent artist gets more money selling just 50,000 albums than someone who sells 5 million with the support of a major label.
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Post by quianaj11 on Jan 6, 2014 4:24:02 GMT
This is a very good thread and yes Jada the independent singers make more money because they don't have advances and all the bullshit that goes along with being a label artist.
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Post by eljjai on Jan 6, 2014 6:42:19 GMT
^^^ Interesting points guys. About indie singers, they are always portayed as struggling and unfortunate, but then a lot of big name singers get to a point where they start wanting to own their own lables, put studios in their homes, is that an attempt to get away from the beast? not that it would ever let them go.
Yeah indie sure is the way to go, with good music and a little exposure you'll get fans and they'll buy your music. Like the indie songs that play in movies or in popular shows like greys anatomy. People hear that music and they seek out the band or singer. I've come across a lot of good music that way.
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Post by motherspirit on Jan 6, 2014 17:59:52 GMT
Thought I'd move this article to over here Now Matthew….SMH. There are many producers who I’ve worked with directly who were signed to Matthew as producers and they were ROBBED off their publishing. There’s one producer who produced a huge record on the BDAY album (i won’t name the record because it would be a dead give away on my identity) but he was signed to Matthew and only got $25,000 for the track…period. Now that may seem like a lot of money but keep in mind the song went on to make way more than $25,000. Matthew took all of his publishing…dude doesn’t get royalties or nothing because he signed them away to Matthew in a shady deal. Now here’s a dude that’s produced a hugh record for Beyonce barely gets credited for it as a ghost writer…I don’t even know if his name shows up in the credits but they replaced his name with the name of a major producer and I think they either credited him as a co-producer if I’m not mistaken but dude was the one who actually created the beat from scratch. Sean Garrett for "Get Me Bodied"? |
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Post by whoa chile! on Jan 6, 2014 18:38:21 GMT
Thought I'd move this article to over here Now Matthew….SMH. There are many producers who I’ve worked with directly who were signed to Matthew as producers and they were ROBBED off their publishing. There’s one producer who produced a huge record on the BDAY album (i won’t name the record because it would be a dead give away on my identity) but he was signed to Matthew and only got $25,000 for the track…period. Now that may seem like a lot of money but keep in mind the song went on to make way more than $25,000. Matthew took all of his publishing…dude doesn’t get royalties or nothing because he signed them away to Matthew in a shady deal. Now here’s a dude that’s produced a hugh record for Beyonce barely gets credited for it as a ghost writer…I don’t even know if his name shows up in the credits but they replaced his name with the name of a major producer and I think they either credited him as a co-producer if I’m not mistaken but dude was the one who actually created the beat from scratch. Sean Garrett for "Get Me Bodied"? damn, that's mess up! so freakin' wrong! |
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Post by motherspirit on Jan 6, 2014 19:49:09 GMT
Sean Garrett for "Get Me Bodied"? damn, that's mess up! so freakin' wrong! I don't know for sure. I'm just guessing. |
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